Discussion about this post

User's avatar
TallTim's avatar

Nicely done. I"ve always had my misgivings about PoS, having used a few chains that always had consensus problems and siezed up at random times, but you really dive down on why PoS is fundamentally a flawed direction to go in.

I see why Vitalik and the like are supporters of it -- it aligns with their ideology of control and group-ganging to push people to do what they want. The DAO "hack" rollback, for example showed that Vitalik really didn't care about the users (very few voted, if at all), and he just unilaterally decided for the whole chain.

This is one of the first articles I've read that goes down to the protocol level to explain exactly what is going on, and even though I thought PoS had a "who watches the watchmen" kind of problem it is much worse than I thought when you get into Gasper and its "did enough time pass? Okeydokey!" kind of decisions that are potentially exploitable.

Again, great work.

Expand full comment
Ghostie's avatar

First I want to tell you that I'm impressed reading such a good summary of Ethereum PoS from a bitcoiner without him dunking on Ethereum in every second sentence.

At second I want to add or dispute some things from an ethereum point of view:

You could have set the inactivity leak in relation: If a validator is still 1/2 of the time online (offline from time to time) he is still net positive (if the network isn't considered under attack). I would assume that this is economically "better" compared to a mining farm which is half of it's time offline.

The objective truth of Bitcoin's PoW also has bootstrap issues. Actually - to be 100% sure - both systems require external information for confirmation if the "right reality" has been gossipped correctly. In Bitcoin you need to check if your node sees the chain with the highest PoW and in Ethereum you need to check if you are on the right "justified checkpoint". If Ethereum gets an alternate reality gossipped the node could at least detect that there might be a conflicting situation which requires user intervention while bitcoin (as you stated) knows for sure which the right chain is.

PoS also has some advantages. In a scenario where the gossip protocol gets censored suddenly an attacker of an PoW network just requires little PoW (let's say 1/6th of the world) to trick everyone into thinking that anything is allright for a few hours. (Because it's normal to sometimes have a block interval of one hour.) In PoS you would be required to crack the private keys of the next validators which most likely is more PoW than the whole BTC chain has accumulated up to now.

Also, PoS has no security budget problem which BTC may have within the next 4 halvings.

Additionally one thing about RANDAO (the "randomly" you did put into quotes): It's not only a really good source of randomness, it also is really random if you have at least one honest participant (which could be you). And it can be audited. So in the case I had to bet wither about the next bitcoin block hash or about RANDAO output against a powerful actor I propably would chose RANDAO.

I guess we can at least agree on that those are quite exciting times to see if Ethereum will make it or implode. :D

Expand full comment
17 more comments...

No posts